Minor hockey debacle in S.S. Marie
There is a toxic element that is having a chaotic and disruptive effect on minor hockey in Sault Ste. Marie. And in this case, the Soo Pee Wee Hockey League stands accused as the alleged culprit.
Cause for major consternation is the alleged refusal of SPWHL to sign release forms for players as young as nine-years old (2007 birth dates) so they can try out for the Soo Jr. Greyhounds, who are part of a Sault Minor Hockey program that operates atom minor, atom major, pee wee minor and pee wee major teams under the watch of the Sault Major Hockey Association.
Of further issue is Sault Minor Hockey’s contention that it had ice time booked well in advance for Jr. Greyhound tryouts at Community First Soo Pee Wee Arena this weekend only to be recently told that said ice time is no longer available for the scheduled tryouts. As a result, Sault Minor Hockey was forced to shift its Jr. Greyhound tryouts for this weekend across the International Bridge to Big Bear Arena in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.
In the wake of SPWHL not signing release forms so players as young as nine years old can try out for the Jr. Greyhounds, parents of the atom minor AA youngsters were forced to appeal to the Northern Ontario Hockey Association to intervene on their behalf.
The matter is now in the hands of the NOHA.
Mike Landry, who is the president of SPWHL, did not respond to a request from HockeyNewsNorth.com to comment regarding the alleged refusal to sign player releases as requested by parents.
And Chad Bouchard, who is the manager for Community First Soo Pee Wee Hockey Arena, did not respond to a request from HockeyNewsNorth.com for an explanation as to why scheduled ice for the Jr. Greyhound tryouts was allegedly cancelled.
Denis Paradis, who is the chair of Sault Minor Hockey, has indicated his frustration with SPWHL to parents of the youngsters wanting to try out for the various Jr. Greyhound teams.
And Matt Cavaliere, who is the president of Sault Major Hockey Association, said he would be available for comment on the alleged actions of SPWHL after his group has had a general meeting on Thursday.
Meanwhile, Joe Drago, who is the chairman of the board for Hockey Canada — which oversees all minor hockey associations in the country — gave his thoughts on player movement.
“Too often I have witnessed players not able to move to another team or league,” Drago began. “It bothers me that some associations behave as though they own these players and will decide what is best for them. Personally, I support freedom of movement.”
From my end, I wonder if the good folks at Community First Credit Union — which paid big money to attach its name to Soo Pee Wee Arena — know what is going on within the SPWHL executive walls.
I also wonder how the owners of local businesses who sponsor teams in the SPWHL that play out of Community First Soo Pee Wee Arena feel about the actions of adults who allegedly refused to sign releases for nine-year old kids who wish to try out for the Jr. Greyhounds.
This is not a pretty situation. It has become a negative topic of conversation within the local minor hockey community.
In fact, it carries the appearance of adults rearing their ugly heads at the expense of innocent children.
It never ceases to amaze me how some of these ‘adults’ take their respective roles as president, vice, etc so seriously as they pretend to play empire builders. The retention of players rights are only a matter for junior hockey and beyond, where the game transcends into a business and not a game.
Minor hockey IS FOR THE CHILDREN .. unfortunately it is the executive of the peewee league who are acting as such by not letting others “play with their toys”….
… Grow up people… you are making yourselves look foolish… and giving our sport a bad name..
this seems to be an ongoing power struggle between two organizations…. SPWHL and Soo Major ….. it does not make sense that 2 organizations operate separately for the same age group of children……….. it would seem one organization is required ……. i grew up when there there were multiple organizations — SRHA – Elks League, Soo Pee wee, Soo Major —— simply now there is not enough need for multiple organizations ……….. the local hockey pool is severely ltd …………. the egos need to be dropped at the door ………… a group of ppl need to be assembled that have integrity …. a sense of fairness ……… and will lead hockey in the Soo and area ………. to the benefit of all ……………. transparency is important ————– ie perhaps coaching spots should be decided upon merit ……. ie previous records ………..player/ parent satisfaction ………….. just some thoughts
Maybe the jr. greyhound teams should build their own rink. This way the parents don’t have to worry about their kids getting ice time.
This is clearly an OPINION piece that doesn’t have all the facts correct! I expected more from Randy. The AAA cards ARE being signed so they CAN try out!
I will agree that everyone involved in hockey needs to put egos aside, put past arguments aside and work together for the kids!! We do not have AAA and AA and A and select caliber kids in the Soo. If I asked 100 kids about if they care whether they play AAA or AA or house league, 95% would just say they want to PLAY! It is the parents who insist on labels being put on their kids. Have 1 league where they all play, learn and have FUN!!
Nicole,
Mike Landry was given a chance to respond as president of SPWHL and he did not.
As for me not having all the facts correct, I stand by what I wrote.
I have talked to parents of nine-year olds whose releases have NOT been signed.
Also, Nicole, you claim to speak for 95 per cent of the hockey parents in the Soo?
Also, according to you, we don’t have select-calibre players in the Soo?
Clearly an opinion piece on your part…and as a division co-ordinator for Soo Pee Wee Hockey League, no less.
Good to bring this out in the open Randy. Enough is enough w regards to adults who ruin the game for kids. You guy’s sure have problem’s over there.
Obviously mine is an opinion piece, I never claimed it wasn’t. I am not a journalist and do not claim to be, you on the other hand are and I expect a journalist to give an unbiased opinion. If you are putting your article under the heading of “opinion” or “letter to the editor” then your piece is valid, but it did not.
I was wrong to put a statistic in there, that I will agree on. I do NOT speak for all kids playing hockey and should not have put that in there.
As for my saying we do not have select players in the Soo, I can see how my wording was taken incorrectly. What I meant to say is that we have a team, maybe 2 teams, that could be considered “rep”, or “select” or whatever you want to call it, not as many “rep” teams as they are trying to put out there between the 3 organizations running hockey programs.
I am a division coordinator, which gives me NO power over anything. I just get to listen to all the complaints parents have an bring them to the league. I have NO vote on anything, I have NO say on anything. So how that fits into your rebuttal I am not sure?
And last question: did you talk to Joe Drago about the particular situation in the Soo? Or are you just taking a comment and fitting it into your article because it sounds good? If you sat down with him and explained ALL the facts and he said that then it is valid, but if you are taking a general comment he made about releases, then it doesn’t have a place in your article in the context you used it.
Nicole,
Yes, I talked to Joe Drago, personally. He is a friend of mine of 40 years. Not that it is any of your business.
As for an opinion piece, if it is written in first person, it becomes an opinion. Spare me the lecture as to validity.
Nicole – Your comments and I’ve cut and pasted “I am a division coordinator, which gives me NO power over anything. I just get to listen to all the complaints parents have an bring them to the league. I have NO vote on anything, I have NO say on anything.” is exactly why the SPWHL is in the state it’s in right now. It has become a dictatorship despite the guise of having a committee. How many good people have left the executive in the past few years because of the way its run? I know of 5. That is 5 hockey people who left or were forced out because they had a different opinion then the one the president tried to force down their throat.
Great article Randy,
Follow the money. It all comes down to money which is killing youth sports.
How about we start hearing about some of the offers SPWHL has offered to SMHA. Some that have been accepted and then turned down the next day, some that refused with no mutual discussions. Fact is the AA cards were removed from the SPWHL illegally (my opinion) which is why they have an appeal for them back.
I’ve heard SPWHL offered to run House League up to A from Timbits to Midget, giving SMHL AA and AAA. isnt this how it should be? Why Sault Major doesnt see this as an intriguing offer blows my mind. Simply put Sault Major does not have the ice to field all the teams it desires. Now we hear rumors they will pull ice from Bantam and Midget A and B teams for Sault Minor teams in need of it. Give House league to the SPWHL, Take AA and AAA and run with it, you can have a mutual agreement to pull players from A if needed.
Stop the fighting over kids and ice time. Work together to create what hockey is supposed to mean to all. FUN!
Well stated R.R. Thanks for getting this out there.
I sent my son’s release form in to Soo Pee Wee 2 weeks ago and it was never signed. I had to send a written appeal to the NOHA on Tuesday of this week so my Grade 3 kid would be able to realize his “hockey dream” of just to try out for the Greyhounds Atom Team. This just is not right on the part of the Pee Wee.
A lot of politics in place and no progress. Groups must work together and get a agreement on their differences. Our players are being effected and not given a open opportunity. Please give them the freedom they need to progress.
Obviously Nicole hasn’t watched any of our local AA or AAA kids play hockey. We have a phenomenal rep program in the soo and these kids can compete with the bigger cities from down south but one rep team is all we need. If everything plays out the way it’s going there will be 4 select teams in the peewee divisions. Not right. There also needs to be an internal investigation done on who authorized the ice time to be taken away from soo minor and given to the peewee. What a disgrace these people are.
Sad that parents can’t face the facts and reality that there son/daughter does not have the skill to play at an elite level. I’ve said since day one.. One team from each age group should represent our city and the rest should be houseleague. We’re quickly becoming the joke of minor hockey across the province. When is it going to stop? It seems as though whenever a player gets cut from a team their parents start lobbying to form another rep team.. Hope these people look back one day and realize how ridiculous this whole situation was.
Bottom line is this: Soo Pee Wee Hockey are REFUSING TO RELEASE 9_YEAR OLD kids who want to play at a higher level in the SAME CITY!!!!!
Soo Pee Wee Hockey and Mike Landry: SHAME SHAME SHAME on you!!!!!
Obviously ‘Slewfoot’ hasn’t followed the tournament failures of the Peewee AA or the Bantam and Midget AA and AAA teams. Unfortunately for now, we are only hearing one side of the story. It appears Sault Minor has a vendetta against the Sault Peewee Hockey League as it is attempting to decommission the SPWHL league in the name of ‘rep’ hockey. What their egos fail to tell parents is that this city does not have the depth of talent to even support AAA. Therefore I believe the Sault Major/Sault Minor proposal to establish more AAA and AA rep teams has become a power struggle for the almighty $$$.
Has Sault Major/Minor execs informed Randy of the tournament statistics that the Sault Jr Greyhounds PeeWee AA pilot project achieved in their maiden year? Perhaps one should review that team’s performance when they travelled to Southern Ontario tournaments and the OHF tournament in Timmins last weekend before choosing which side is right or wrong? They suffered heavy losses to the tune of a 10 plus goal differential in the majority of their games when competing against true Southern Ontario AA talent . These tournament stats should form the basis of the argument for a multiple tiered rep hockey program in the Sault, and stop accusing the SPWHL of any wrongdoings until such a review has been completed. Sadly this review will discover that this peewee AA pilot project was a failure in the true Ontario PeeWee AA forum and also had a major negative affect on the Sault Peewee Hockey League divisional numbers. So the question remains, why the need for AAA and AA rep programs in a centre where the population has declined to (68000) and barely has the depth to support AAA? The answer in my opinion is to abolish the SPWHL and gain hockey financial supremacy. The SPWHL has provided years of development and fun for kids at the house league level and its grass roots existence is now being threatened.
Here is a suggestion, instead of creating more rep teams why not worry about reevaluating the rep programs as they currently exist, (4 total at the peewee and atom levels and 3 at the bantam and midget levels) because when you truly peel back all the layers of this mess, you will find the Bantam Minor, Major AAA, AA and midget AAA and AA select programs produced the same tournament and league statistics as the PeeWee Minor pilot project did…..and perhaps find the answer to a question of one of your previous articles ……”why are we not producing OHL draft picks”? I can assure you that the answer wont be found at the Sault Peewee Hockey League. That question can only be answered by one Association. What hand is the coconut in?
It’s not fair to assess this year’s Peewee AA team in the manner you’re suggesting. They have both 03’s and 04’s who prior to this year have played only house league at the SPW, and they are competing against AA teams from all over the province that have been together since Novice. Given that, I’d call their year a success. Give these kids 3-5 more years of development at the AA level and I bet they compete.
Thanks Kevin for backing up the AA program. I am a parent of one of those kids who got bombed in Timmins. My kid was the only one on this team who had played rep hockey before. This season the boys learned tonnes from their coaches and from each other. Yah they were crushed at Provincials but they made provincials and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. People seem to think hockey is about success. Well you are wrong my son is already missing his teammates and this year had some steller moments scoring in the last minute to oust Marquette from the playoffs to playing in a team Canada jersey with their name on the back. Most of all they learned to lose with dignity and sportsmanship. Something we as parents need to let our kids learn. After not being deemed good enough for AAA my son was able to practice and play 80 games with kids his level and better. It sure beats playing house league where the development is non existent and the president does not return emails.
Timmins won the NOHAs, and thus represented Northern Ontario at the OHFs. The Peewees got a bye only because Timmins hosted the OHFs , otherwise the soo was out.
My understanding is that Timmins won the NOHAs, and thus represented Northern Ontario at the OHFs. The Peewees got a bye only because Timmins hosted the OHFs , otherwise the soo was out.
Gordie., your answer is in your uneducated rant. These players came from the SPWHL. Given that the best second tier players were split between Soo Minor and KBX this team did well. Yes they had a difficult time at SOME tournaments. One was because the SOO has a good reputation and they were put in the highest division, the other was the lack of experience at the OHF’s.
You choose to look at the negatives, what about the tournaments they did well at? What about the silver medal at the NOHA Tournament of Championship? How did the SPWHL teams do at the NOHA? Oh right, they aren’t allowed to experience a tournament of champions.
Its not just about the ice, its about the experience. There are now 17 players who received OHF experience, something they will never forget. Oh and by the way…they lost by 1 goal to the eventual winners. Win that game and they would have advanced to the semi finals.
Gordie,
One side of the story? Who are you trying to kid?
Go back and re-read my column. Both the president of Soo Pee Wee Hockey League and the manager of Community First Soo Pee Wee Arena DID NOT RESPOND to my request to give THEIR SIDE OF THE STORY.
Also, as for you pointing out the supposed failures of Sault Major/Sault Minor, just what does that have to do with SPWHL refusing to sign release forms for nine-year old children who wish to try out for a rep team?
Answer me that, “Gordie.”
Nicole typical “get the puck” hockey Mom. Sad that you don’t understand how insulting and wrong what you claim as a fact is. See hun the thing is trying to reinforce your false argument with false unfounded facts just makes it all fall down into a big pile of “your stupid”.
The Soo has produced and continues t produce great hockey talent, and it is part of our identity as a city. I get great amusement out of you speaking for others with such confidence when you clearly have no idea of the truth.
Please do the game of Hockey and the city of the Soo a Favor and stay away from anything Hockey. You are Not helping!
At least I will put my name for others to see “Phil”. And it would be YOU’RE stupid not YOUR. I agree I shouldn’t have put stats, but I will stand by everything else.
Thanks for your kind thoughts PHIL!
Randy : I did read your article and thats why I stated “unfortunately for now we are only hearing one side of story” .
The point of the Sault Major/ Minor inference is that there are too many rep teams that cannot compete now as clearly seen by their tournament results? So why create more at the expense of the existence of the PeeWee league. I believe The PeeWee is only trying to protect hockey at the grass roots level. IMHO
Great discussion piece Randy.
Gordie,
The Pee Wee is “trying to protect hockey at the grassroots level” by not giving requested releases to nine-year old children who want to try out for a rep team?
Are you serious, man?
Who is the SPWHL to deny a child the right to try out for a rep team?
Please enlighten us.
Great article. The only part missing is the addition of the KBX program, also trying to recruit kids from the same pool.
What everyone forgets, when this all started the rep program wanted nothing. It was the SPWHL who refused any releases to the original rep teams UNTIL the threat of an appeal process. This so they can run their own program. Yes, they had cards (only for last 4-5 years) but never used them. When was the last time a SPWHL team went to the NOHA Tournament of Champions to represent the Soo at any age group? Been years I guess but I can’t say for sure.
Secondly in response to Gordie, there definitely seems to be an appetite for a second layer of rep hockey because we now have 3 different programs for it and they all claim to have many kids signed up. All 3 agree that the second layer is required.
Say what you want about each program now but the SPWHL always did a their job developing house league players to prepare them for rep. Rep did a their job in preparing them for Bantam/Midget. Bantam & Midget got them ready for Junior. Worked well for a lot of years.
The associations got along well for so long so ask yourself what has changed? The difference…SPWHL wants to run rep hockey now and will go to great lengths and extreme costs to get it. How much has been spent on legal fees instead of the players? Add KBX into the mix and now we have a definite mess.
Let the kids play where they want and start working to one association with one common goal. To put a smile on the kids face.
Great article Randy. It’s about time we sparked up this conversation. Sad to say it, but I find as parents, we are afraid to speak up for fear that our children may be treated differently (how, I do not know, lol). But there is this strange fear – of the hockey gods, or hockey mafia, or whatever else I’ve heard the Soo Pee Wee executive called in the quiet corners of the rinks. I have yet to see any accountability and anyone demanding accountability or transparency seems to be somehow ostracized by not only the executives, but also other fearful parents. (a ‘don’t draw the bullies attention to me’ situation exists).
There’s always two sides to a story. Unfortunately, sometimes you should hear both sides first before making assumptions to only blame one side. You have to ask where did this go wrong. Is it just the Soo Pee Wee that is to blame? I don’t think so. Does Sault Major a have part in this? Soo Minor? What part of the picture has KBX painted also. People need to understand that the Soo Pee Wee does care about the kids. That’s why there’s a fight to keep the rest of the kids playing at the Soo Pee Wee’s House league program. They don’t want to hold your child from moving on. After all, for some , it’s their goal too join up with the Sault Major program somewhere down the Road and the Soo Pee Wee takes pride in doing so with the players that move on. What the Soo Pee Wee wants to stop is the other nonsense of creating more teams at the Rep level in a Northern Centre that’s has very little legit Rep players available to do it. Joe Drago doesn’t surprises me with his comments also. Funny, he’s a part of Hockey Canada who has yet to step in and and help fix this mess, being they (NOHA/OHF) are part to blame, (Great job Mr. Drago) as they allowed the False statements along the way to carry on down stream, to the “Pool of Lies” that created it all. Let’s look at one scenario that is called “Acquiring” players from an Association in the same district. That is a “No No” through the “OHF/NOHA’s” Hockey Regulations. You need to ask a series of questions about some of the things behind the Curtain. So why would Sault Major apply for 4 Novice AA cards? Why would the NOHA/OHF agree to give 4 sets of “AA” cards to another Association in the same District? Isn’t there a “Rule” that says it’s not allowed? We’re there lies to obtain these Cards? Maybe the President of Sault Major can explain about giving “False” information to the OHF/NOHA to obtain these cards. There was a series of Questions that needed to be asked on the applicants request. That being Sault Major. Here we’re some of the Questions and Sault Majors Answers. Question #1. From NOHA: Would this have an affect on the remaining players left at the Soo Pee Wee? Answer Sault Major: “No” (Lie) Question #2: Does your Association have additional allotment to ice these teams? Answer “Yes” (Lie) Question #3: Will this dismantle another “Association” within the “District” where these additional teams would play. Answer “No” (Lie)
Just some of the true facts that aren’t being brought forward. Just so they can move 4 teams to another Association to play against each other in the same league? Are these 4 Teams not playing in a league at the Soo Pee Wee already? Why move them? So what about the kids that have to remain back that don’t make the 4? washed down teams at the “AA” level? What about the kids remaining back that have no teams to play against? We’re talking about 7-8 year olds here. Rep can wait. This is by know means the GTA where you can start Rep at 7-8 years old. It’s a puddle of players that we have have here in this City. Not a Ocean of players to choose from. That’s just a Fact. Starting Rep at the Atom level could be questioned also. Quit trying to compare this city’s numbers to others programs down South. Is this about Developing them at Sault Major/Soo Minor because they have a better program? Or Could this not be done at the Soo Pee Wee in House-League at much cheaper cost? Does the Soo Pee Wee not have Legit Coaches to do this? After all. Everyone Starts at the Soo Pee Wee. Or is this about “Control” of Hockey operations within the District? Ask yourself this. What has the Soo Pee Wee taken from other Associations? The past few years has been misleading as to why these Cards are not being signed over. They are simply trying to keep the Majority of the youth players that aren’t Rep Calibre to stay at the House league level and for the kids that remain to play in a legit league with proper numbers to do so. Little Jonny will move on in the end. No worrys. Sault Majors President/Board has Failed and embarrassed the Hockey scene in Sault Ste. Marie. What about KBX. They secured an Arena, that being the Rankin Arena and took all the prime ice. When in fact their numbers of teams to fill that ice they secured is in question. Now they hold other programs at will with threats if they want ice. KBX just took ice away from Sault Major/Soo Wildcats/Soo Minor, But let’s ignore and praise KBX because they give “Choice”? Is this not a move to Disrupt the other Programs in the City Also? Forcing people to go across the River and find ice for the entire year? There’s talk that KBX secured the ice for 3-5 years. Troubling. Please. Before you lay the mallet down on One Association in this City, one that’s actually been here for the longest, remember that this was about trying to destroy a league in this City that involves the Grass Root of up and coming players. It’s the most important Association. It’s where everything starts isn’t? This shouldn’t be just about Rep! Don’t worry your Child will get his/her release and you can move on your way. This is not about releasing players. It’s a fight to keep the House League divisions in tack for the other Hockey players that want a league to play in. Even if it’s only House-league. Let’s remember who this is for! Kids!!
Eddie,
Your ice time claim about KBX and what it has booked at Rankin is not correct, according to Rankin officials.
ED. NOTE: The following announcement has been posted on the Sault Minor Hockey website:
ATOM MINOR AA TRYOUTS
Due to circumstances beyond our control we will have to once again reschedule the Atom Minor AA tryouts. They will now take place April 23 and 24th with times to follow.
We cannot go on the ice until after the NOHA appeal process which will take place Monday April 18th, 7PM at the Quattro Hotel. You must contact the NOHA , via email, to confirm your attendance at the hearing. Send the email to jmarchand@noha.on.ca. The process has been sent to your email address provided to the NOHA.
We will retain this weekends ice until Thursday April 14th 4PM in hopes the releases will be signed. If they are not signed by then we will officially cancel the ice and reschedule.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause but this circumstance is beyond our control and the NOHA is simply following their constitution.
We thank everyone for your interest and support of the Jr. Greyhound program.
Randy,
I have been waiting for you to post about this giant mess we call minor hockey here in the Soo. As a parent of 2 hockey crazy little dudes, I thank you for bringing light to this situation. Your articles,blogs and posts have a far greater reach than our small community; and I am glad this is now out there for others to see, judge, comment or maybe even HELP solve the problem.
I do not pretend to know all the answers. Nor do I wish to pass blame on any one organization. The fact is a group of adults are once again spoiling things for innocent children, creating a toxic atmosphere. The rink is supposed to be a place of escape. A place where the kids live out dreams and create life long friendships. The actions of both board members are creating the exact opposite.
I hope that at the very least this article reaches many organizations across Ontario as a shining beacon of how not to run Minor Hockey.
Easily fixed, just elect a new President.
Randy. I’m not trying to make False statements. As I’m looking at the KBX website and states they have Prime ice from 4pm-9pm. Also weekends look to be booked up according to the schedule of league and practices of KBX. Not sure what the Rankin Officials are saying, but maybe they should explain what is available for other Associations. Seems that a lot of the people have heard it that KBX is running the Rankin Ice. Sault Major and other Association have used the Rankin in the last several years. So I don’t understand where the ice availability for other Association will come from. So is this not a problem? There is obviously a ice issue within the City. The Soo Pee Wee arena has taken what from Soo Major as far as ice? Tryouts? That’s 20 hour in Total for one weekend. They removed the 7am practices from the Pee Wee for Sault Major..That’s not a huge issue but I get it. It’s still ice. In the end there are a lot of good Hockey Minded people in this Community. How is it that this couldn’t of been fixed? Just very dissappointing in the end that this couldn’t of been handled differently.
Eddie,
Not saying you were intentionally. But I happened to be talking to an official of Rankin Arena at the Greyhound game last night and it was he who told me that much of what is on the website in question with regards to booked ice time simply is not factual.
Thanks Randy. This is what should be clarified to the people. Again. I was only going by what I seen on the KBX website. Hopeful this all turns around for the kids. This would be a true Hockey Bed for having such a small population to produce good talented Hockey players. A lot of good Hockey People. Now we need to ice these people together and. Move on for the Better. Imagine what this could be if they would move on from the past dealings that went wrong. Thanks for your time.
Sure putting the “ass” in Association. NOHA needs to FIRE EVERY BOARD MEMBER of both organizations and reevaluate with 1 association. Multiple rep teams of the same caliber from a city with a population of 60k. Yup makes total sense……not. Spending 10’s of 1000′ on legal fees in stead of making the program better because they’re fighting over the caliber of hockey, registrations and their back accounts. Refuse to sign cards …….. we live in the Sault- where they gonna go play if they dont make it? Quickly wrecking a good sport!!
C-ment Hands nailed it in one paragraph. No red herrings, no curve balls, no excuses. Nicely stated buddy.
(but if the NOHA was truly interested in fixing things here, and had the nuts to do it, then it would have already been done…)
i read through the opinions ………………. i think both organizations have some very good history ………the Peewee arena was built (if i am correct) when the Soo had only the Memorial Gardens ………… the steel workers i believe were instrumental in getting increased ice availability ……….. many very good hockey players and programs came through the doors —- Soo Major of course as well has had a great hand in developing players who went on to play at university, major Jr A, professional ranks …………… I mentioned in my first post —— DROP THE EGOS……….i think that is still essential ……………. we need a group to be established that has a passion for hockey — based on players, ………. this group needs to be transparent …………. based on people with integrity, and a commitment to fairness, openness and accountability ……………….. obviously there are problems …………. what can be done to fix them? ………………… I realize it is easier to blame ………… but what are the solutions……………..
The ideal solution is to have one hockey association running minor hockey in Sault Ste. Marie, Tom Thumb through Midget. Then there would be no conflicting interests between house league (although Hockey Canada classifies house league in the Bantam and Midget as no body checking, house league is truly anything below rep/travel team hockey even if there may be different levels/classifications of divisions of play within house league – for instance A and non-A at the Peewee Association and AA/A and B at the Sault Major Association) and rep hockey but rather a unified approach to how many rep/travel teams to have in each age group and how many rep/travel teams to have in each age group (of course, there would be no rep/travel teams in Tom Thumb, Tyke and really there should be no rep/travel teams in Novice). It is shameful that minor hockey in Sault Ste. Marie has become so fractured, with the executives of each minor hockey association trying to protect their own turf and using the kids playing the sport as the booty in the whole process. Quite frankly there should be a no need for a league to be have to give a player a release/waiver to allow that player to try out for a team at a higher level/classification than that player participated in the previous season, even if that involves that player trying out for the higher level/classification in a different association in the same locality/municipality. This whole situation in Sault Ste. Marie seems to need a fix by the NOHA/OHF even if it is an imposed fix rather than a locally negotiated fix – let’s get back to organizing and running the game of hockey for the youth that play the game, not the adults that try to run it and can’t see eye to eye on how to run it.
Correction – should have said ” a unified approach to how many rep/travel teams to have in each age group and how many house league leaks to haste in each age group”
My keyboarding skills are a little rusty – “… and how many house league teams to have in each age group”
Looks like theres 5 ex-KBX members trying out for Sault Minor. Thats 1/3 of the team. Was it the ‘development’? Or perhaps lack thereof. Interesting indeed!
Ya and there’s a higher caliber group of players, there then many on Soo minors team hands down. You really think they want to play for Soo minor lol maybe they already know better , That system is so flawed it’s wild !! There’s kids that can compete there and hated it !! Where’s the facts listen to the kids maybe you’ll hear the real truth !!
I’m sure those players are eyeing AA not AAA. Either way they’ll be better off in Sault Minor than playing A talent in Southern Ontario with KBX.
This is to all you complete and utter morons out there who are not getting the message which is:
Mike Landry and the the Soo Peewee Hockey League are refusing to release young kids in our City who want to try-out for the Soo Junior Greyhounds Atom team. Who the F–k does Mike Landry think he is ??????????
The president of the SPWHL.
Elect a new President…oust him
The unsigned release forms is sad to me especially considering everything else that is going on with these leagues, all its doing is creating more negativity, and more angry people. If you want retention, probably not a good idea to upset everyone.
Geof, 5 kids from KBX want to try out for AAA, thats all that is, nothing against KBX’s program, its as simple as kids wanting to see if they can make the next caliber of hockey, no sense reading any more into it than that.
2 seasons ago the NOHA gave Sault Major the rep cards for novice and atom and thats when a lot of this started and every since the Peewee has been trying to get some sort of rep back since. There has been all kinds of this group said this, or offered this and this side rejected that. I have heard more directly the SMHA side and I would be paraphrasing so I wont start throwing that around. Even as the kids get older and are playing in the Bantam and Midget leagues, High School Hockey becomes a factor in whats wrong with hockey here and adding older teams to KBX or the Peewee further complicates that. The basic fact is that hockey in Sault Ste. Marie is broken. As Bill Johnson stated and a few others, this city’s hockey needs to unite under one league and honestly make high school hockey an extra program, meaning kids can play both. If the current leaders can’t do it, Then I think hockey Canada or the OHF needs to be involved, not the NOHA directly. Some people who have no ties to the Sault or the NOHA. Im not saying we need to clean house, I think the volunteers that run these leagues have thankless jobs and should be allowed to stay on if they wish in a capacity that would fit in the new league alignment. Could we have AAA, AA, A and or selects, yes I think so but not without strong local leagues and places for the kids who just enjoy play. Without these quality affordable local leagues, you numbers will continue to decrease as kids today have so many options on activities they can play they will choose something else. With all these leagues and the emphasis on kids playing some sort of rep level the house leaguers slowly drop off as its not as fun for them or they are forced to play at a card that is higher than their caliber because there are not enough kids registered to fill out the different levels. And since these are “rep” levels then the emphasis on winning usually increases and the ice time for the less developed players decreases in a lot of cases which again further discourages younger players, or enrages these players parents. To me, there is really very little being done to protect the “grassroots” of this sport and its a shame because there are so many incredible resources available within our city to really revive Hockey and make it Fun for all calibers as well as continue to develop high level players.
Actually no Matt, 2 of those kids quit KBX because of ice time, apparently when you
take on a player who quit the spwhl on draft night because he didnt like his team, burning that team of the 1st round pick, taking on another AAA kid half way thru the season and then another AAA quitter for the playoffs, they didnt like being bumped further down the bench. So yes there might be more to it.
Where were these details in your other post? Why did these Kids not want to play AAA? these are also details you should pass on, If you are going to rip on something, be sure to include all the details if there is going to be more to it and not just take a free shot at the KBX program.
But if these are the cases, then what I said later in my post is valid about emphasis on winning no matter what rep program it is. Whether its parents, league or the coaches putting that emphasis on the teams.
All comes down to higher tiered teams and Coaches with kids. Everyone else is always paying for the development of a few. Both AAA kids came off the same 04 team which is rather successful, which I guess tells you even success doesn’t equal happiness.
Absolutely Rick. Based on Article 13, Section 13.01 of the SPWHL Constitution, this president and executive have failed miserably.
Hmm.. Wish hockey was more about the kids, rather than the money. 9 years old? These kids aren’t even a decade old yet and they’re being “fought” over with “contracts” like NHL players? Yikes… What’s the real problem here……
Mike Landry ah what a legend.
Yah, he sure is a beuty!! Took a great hockey league down in 3 years.
There are a few kids signed up for the PeeWee Select program that are also scheduled to appear at the NOHA appeal hearings (for release to the SMHA try-outs).
Take a look at all the PeeWee Select ‘Agreement’ pages that you signed. I don’t know, but seems kinda tough to argue for release with that signed!
Hard to trust anyone and sad that we have to look out for our kids like this. What a pain in the @#$.
Nobody should give the SPWHL another damn cent until we find out who authorized to change the ice times. Unbelievable.
Geoffff… You really should have come and watched our 04s play… WHY assume …. Development for a few who ? Care to name names???? Really!????!? Why don’t you do a parent poll in your spare time . BUT anyway that’s your ignorance. Every player on our team is EQUALLY developed, plays EQUAL time and are EQUALLY skilled . They all respect each other for all their undeniable skill, amazing teamwork, and selfless play … Coaches are second to none . Kid or no kid . Please Check website next year and come watch us play !!! You’ll become our biggest fan!
Hi Sue,
Yes I did talk with a few parents from your team, they especially enjoyed the games where you played 6 forwards, 7 defense. Or when the entire line would change except Jr. It’s all good though, no matter which avenue you decide to take just make sure at the end of the day the kids having fun. Enjoy!
A parent poll, you don’t want that !! The massive complaints that got ignored lol Fair ice time lmao !! I’ve got it timed on many occasions., but it really doesn’t matter what intimidated parents say. What matters is what the kids say !! I’ve never read so much bulshit in my life !! Why don’t you ask the kids ? Are you afraid ? I already heard enough to disgust anyone from
The kids mouths!! Soliciting people with lies I love it !! Abusive idiots !! How could you possibly say that ! You obviously saw and heard what happened !! The scary part is you ignore what’s happened and condone it, but at the same time would you let your kids be treated that way at home ?? I highly doubt that !! More kids get drafted out of unsanctioned leagues then ever before and I wonder why !! People like you are the problem !
Well stated, Sue. I watched the 04’s play more than once. Very-disciplined, well-coached, well-streamlined team.
Sorry to read of the troubles in the Soo…my sons’ team has played against one of your AAA coaches’ team several times and I’m always amazed at the level of talent on the Jr Greyhounds team. I am not 100% familiar with the situation obviously, but this general “struggle” seems to be common all around the hockey community.
There is no good answer here for a few reasons…the kids that are content playing house (well, their parents really) aren’t going to like the idea of more & more travel teams picking away at the edges, taking kids off to new developing teams…it hurts the house program and limits their kids’ ability to have fun playing hockey. When a few of Johnny’s friends decide they want to try out for the new team Johnny is going to want to go along with them. At some point it is going to lead to fewer teams in house. Here in Alpena, our house teams travel as much as our travel teams do, although not quite as far away.
On the flip side, there is the group of kids who either are truly more talented than others, have higher aspirations, or who have parents that think they’ll eventually get free tickets for every NHL game their kid plays in. They send Johnny off to try out for the AAA team – and disaster strikes, they don’t make the team. The next thing is to find a different travel team to try out for as we live in a world where participation medals rule and we can’t stand to see our kids go through such a crushing blow to their egos (frequently it is the parents’ ego as well). If there isn’t such a team locally, one must be formed, or possibly we need to find a different association.
Another thing that may happen is that Johnny’s parents decide the coach is a buffoon who doesn’t recognize talent, plays politics or some other reason. Once again, another team must be found or formed right away to satisfy our grieving youngster.
A third problem that regardless of Johnny making the team, a few parents get together and decide they know better, can put together a better team, can teach the kids better, know more about hockey, “insert other reason here”. They want to form a new team, have the resources to put one together, and pressure the association to either let them form their own team or they will sign under a different association (I don’t know if that is legitimate in Canada but a player in Alpena can sign in Petoskey, Gaylord, or wherever they want if the parents will cart them around).
This atmosphere certainly wasn’t how things went 30 years ago when I was trying out for travel teams (some I made, many I didn’t). When I got cut I dealt with it, got told to work on my game, got a pat on the back from mom & dad for a good try and went on with my life. We don’t live in that world anymore unfortunately.
I can certainly see both sides of the situation, assume there is a lot I don’t know, but if this is the first time your association has dealt with it you’re actually about a decade behind most of the associations in Michigan!
Randy.
Your column is incomplete. When a person or group representative does not provide you with a comment, the story remains incomplete. Soo Major did not provide a comment, Denis Paradis did not provide a comment the Peewee League and Arena did not provide you with a comment.
How can this be a story? Obviously there are things going on behind the scenes and those things need to play out before judgement can be passed. Are you wrong with your statements? Maybe not. However, you seem to be very one sided without getting all of the information. Both the Peewee and Soo Major/Minor have been around for a long time. I played in both organizations. Why write this when things are still developing behind the scenes? I don’t understand why the story had to be written at this time. It accomplished nothing.
Lastly, Joe Drago provided you with a personal belief on player movement. One can only assume that means a rule is in place to restrict player movement. If player movement was allowed, Desbarats possibly would not have a minor hockey system, Echo Bay possibly would not have a hockey system as parents would put their kids in Sault Ste. Marie hockey instead as the majority of them work in the Sault.
Your column is incomplete and is just scratching surface of the problems in Sault Ste. Marie, the NOHA, the OHF and Hockey Canada.
Marty,
Who are you to define complete or incomplete?
How can this be a story? It is a story, whether you like it or not.
Give us your full name and credentials, Marty, and perhaps you can write a guest column for this site.
What do you mean “who am I to define complete or incomplete?” There is definately a story in all of the mess. Absolutely. Just seems premature. Has the situation been resolved?
You seem to be very angry when somebody questions this story. I do not have any children in the Sault system. As an outsider looking in, the story is very vague, full of speculation and therefore incomplete.
Marty,
Not angry at all.
Again, define the word story.
A situation does not have to be resolved for there to be a story.
Speaking of incomplete, that defines your post. Just a first name, no last name. Ergo, incomplete.
Just be sure to write a follow up and finish the column. When the mess is sorted out.
I would hate to see Soo Minor, Soo PeeWee or Soo Major “lose” a popularity contest as they have been fantastic organizations for many years.
Obviously questioning your words does not bring answers. I wasn’t posting to have an argument. I was asking for more information as it seems incomplete.
I will use another avenue to get some clarity as you do not have the answers.
Feel free to use the avenue of your choice.
Like me, you woke up in a free world this morning.
Randy, as a professional journalist I would hope that your job is defined by integrity. Reporting on a story based on facts as they present from the past and present, without assigning blame, is your job description is it not? Fair and balanced reporting is a sign of integrity. Sadly, your integrity has taken a hit in my eyes.
Here is what I see.
A journalist who defends a side of the fence vehemently!
Incidentally, the side that has paid advertising on his website.
You haven’t heard from all the parties involved yet your conviction is cemented in stone.
You KNOW this story began long ago! Long before the pee wee arena became involved yet now you assign blame.
Perhaps going back to the beginning of this story is where you should stick your reporting nose next. If for know other reason than to re establish your own professionalism.
Randy, I get what’s happening to the kids and it’s a shame! It’s just not all the fault of the Soo pee wee and you especially should no that!
Just so there’s no confusion.
My name is Dean Anderson.
I have no kids in minor hockey.
I’ve played the game mostly for fun over 43 years. I do have a career flying many professional sports teams around the country for AirCanada. I have had the privilege to talk briefly to players, coaches, gm’s and media from the NHL, NBA, and MLB on those trips.
Suffice to say most exemplify professionalism. I wonder what some of them might
think of this piece.
Dean,
1. Am I reporting or writing an opinion piece? (Big difference.)
2. Paid advertising? How do you know it is paid advertising? Perhaps I donate ad space? Methinks you are pontificating on matters legal here, Dean.
As for you playing the game for fun or otherwise and as for you comparing me to the “privilege” you have had of meeting so many media at the NHL, NBA and MLB levels, all I can say is “good for you” Dean.
Just don’t ask me if I am impressed. Unless you can handle the truth.
Randy
1. Not from an ethical standard according to the Code you guys live by. Courtesy of one of those I hold in high esteem.
“Like any other citizen, the journalist has a right to political and other convictions. However, in his/her professional activity he/she should remain neutral and objective in all matters”
2. It’s your website. Optics are just that.
3. It’s not about me Randy. Couldn’t care if you’re impressed or not. Just people
I’ve come to respect at the top of their craft.
You say its about the kids and yet you fan the flames by only expressing your
opinion by covering just the tip of the iceberg. Tell the people the whole story as it unfolded then perhaps people can help effect positive change with rational ideas.
Just a though.
I have my opinion, Dean. You have yours.
Spare me your self-righteous rationale, Dean. And spare me your courtesy.
Yes, it is about the kids, Dean. I don’t think an 8-or-9-year old kid should need a release to try out for a hockey team in the same town.
Do you, Dean?
Come on, Dean, answer the question that was asked in this column instead of trying to spin your holier-than-thou rhetoric.
Here’s your answer Randy.
I’d take the system I played my hockey under. Sherwood park, Alberta. In a town of 50, 000 we had 2 rep teams per age group. AAA and AA. Everything else was considered house league. Here’s the kicker … It was all governed by the same body. Imagine. Worked great!
To many competing personalities in this town. So I couldn’t even begin to say what the right system is. You quote Joe Drago but you fail to talk about player cards which the governing body controls and it seems that’s really what’s being disputed no?
So what does North Bay, Sudbury, Timmins and the many other smaller communities do? They certainly don’t seem as fragmented as here. Perhaps that’s the real issue!
In the Soo everyone wants to be called rep. So let me ask you these questions.
How will the division of all the talent help produce better players?
How will they compete against the teams that don’t have the BS.
And most importantly, what happens to all those kids who just wanna play house a few times a week?
You skirted the question, Dale: Do you think an 8-or-9-year old kid should need a release to try out for a hockey team in the same town?
As for “the kids who just wanna play house a few times a week?” There always has been and still is, house league here.